The journey to becoming the go-to expert in your field

[00:00:00] Amel Derragui: The time is now episode 310

[00:00:05] Give your 100% if you are passionate about something and the rest will follow.

[00:00:14] Amel Derragui: Welcome to the time is now the podcast show design to take action and stay on top of your game to make a bigger impact with your business while creating more freedom and purpose in your life.

[00:00:26] This is your host, Amel Derragui. As your business and marketing coach, I am here to help you get the clarity and the action plan. You need to position yourself as the go-to expert in your field and grow a business that is aligned with your needs. This is your time to create more growth, alignment, and impact with your business.

[00:00:47] And to talk about making an impact. I am so excited to have a wonderful guest on the show

[00:00:53] Furkan Karayel: today who's been amazing

[00:00:55] Amel Derragui: to watch in her journey of really. Doing what's [00:01:00] she's most passionate about, which is inclusion and diversity, and living up to her full potential. By embracing her visibility and positioning herself as the go-to expert.

[00:01:11] And in order to share her story, I would love to welcome Furkan Karayel, Furkan, thank you for being here. And are you ready for this ride?

[00:01:20] Furkan Karayel: Yes, I am. Thank you so much for the kind invitation. I'm so excited, Amel. Thank you.

[00:01:26] Amel Derragui: I am very happy to have you here. So, Fran, I got to discover you on LinkedIn. We don't even have a common connection, but it just says a lot about how you have managed to build your visibility and to position yourself as the go-to expert.

[00:01:40] In your field, which is inclusion and diversity, especially in the tech field. You'll tell us more, but let me introduce you with few words to the listeners. So Furkan is a multi-award winning diversity and inclusion speaker and the author of the bestselling book. Inclusive intelligence, [00:02:00] how to be a role model for diversity and inclusion in the workplace.

[00:02:04] Spoken lectures at the Equality, diversity and Inclusion Master's program at the Institute of Art, Design and Technology in Ireland. She's also the board member of Women for Election, which supports women to succeed in Irish politics. Basically after 10 years of software engineering experience in multinational tech companies in Ireland, Furkan can realize that in the tech industry, women were a minority at work and in leadership positions, but also women with diverse backgrounds in leadership position were basically non-existent.

[00:02:37] That was her wake up call to launch her business. Diversein to help organizations and leaders become role models for diversity. So this is just a few words. So first of all, diverse in. Is that the right way to pronounce it? We call

[00:02:51] Furkan Karayel: it diverse in, it's a little bit short version of a little bit diversity and inclusion.

[00:02:58] So that is where it's [00:03:00] coming from. Diverse in.

[00:03:01] Amel Derragui: Excellent. I love it. And you've transitioned for being an employee to launching your business and. It all started from you, I guess, realizing that there was a problem. So can you give me a little bit of context of how did that trigger you? How were you affected by that?

[00:03:18] Furkan Karayel: Mm-Hmm. First of all, Emma, I always dreamed of becoming a software engineer from childhood times. Growing up in a small town in Turkey, I didn't see role models. Uh, around me, not even on papers or tv. So my passion was really in tech and I came to Ireland as Anus Exchange student almost 20 years ago, and I get an opportunity to, uh, graduate from there.

[00:03:46] Then got my first job and second job. Then I said like, wow, I achieved my lifetime goal. Mm-Hmm. And now I'm a software engineer in a multinational tech company. I'm working with the. The things that I always [00:04:00] wanted to work. I'm learning something every day. I'm working with, um, very diverse teams and et cetera, and something was really missing.

[00:04:09] As you said, the number of women in the leadership was really, really little. I knew that already. And, uh, when it comes to a number of women in the leadership with different ethnic backgrounds of those big, large, uh, tech companies, didn't really exist. And how I find out about it, I Googled because I didn't see it around, and I said, okay.

[00:04:35] These women must be somewhere that, I don't know, after I Googled, I didn't find it. So, um, then I said, this is a very systematic problem and there must be something happening towards it. I dunno why, what is happening? And I didn't only look at diversity as a gender issue. Unfortunately, in the first few years [00:05:00] of many companies only look at it like.

[00:05:02] If we have like 50 50 in the board, men and women, then we are doing it right, or we have almost like 40% of women then we are a good company. In my case, I didn't even consider that is the, the only thing that needs to be focused. And, uh, I searched for organizations who are looking at diverse and inclusion in a holistic way from every angles, because you can't only focus on the gender and then move into Mm-hmm, for example, race.

[00:05:36] Uh, and to different aspects. You have to work simultaneously and together, uh, without, you know, inclusion in, in inclusion. So if you, uh, uh, if you separate these things together, then you are not even doing inclusion in the name of inclusion. Right. Then six years ago, I started my own company. I said I should, I can't sit down and [00:06:00] complain.

[00:06:01] I must do something about it. That's how it actually started.

[00:06:05] Amel Derragui: Wow. Okay. So just to make sure I understand, are you saying that in your search and Korea growth you were looking to work for companies that were proactively being inclusive? Is it what you are saying? Just to make sure I understand?

[00:06:19] Furkan Karayel: Yes. Okay.

[00:06:20] And also promoting those women who had, uh, little visibility. Okay. Yes. Unfortunately in tech we had little visibility women. Yes. And especially women with different ethnic backgrounds.

[00:06:37] Amel Derragui: Okay. Was it from a day to another that you quit and started your business? Or was that progressive? How did you make that transition?

[00:06:44] That's

[00:06:45] Furkan Karayel: a fun part. That's the hardest. Um, well, I burned out. I was, um, I lost my, the, the belief in myself for a while and I, I gave myself a breath from work and I said, okay, [00:07:00] what am I going to do really from here? And at that time. I, uh, had the idea of diverse in, but I didn't

know how. I wanted to share the stories of those wonderful women who are actually there, but not visible.

[00:07:15] And one night I said, okay, I'm going to build a pa a page on social media accounts, and I will. I like to work of those wonderful people and also share the stories that are not being shared in the workplaces. I shared the news on LinkedIn and different platforms and I start getting messages from different part of the world.

[00:07:37] They said, how can we support this? How can we take part in this? This is great, and some of my friends said that this is so you. Well, I always wanted to stand up against non-inclusive behaviors, but on the other side, doing it, turning this to a business was. You know, I, I had my masters in [00:08:00] software. I have no idea how to start a business.

[00:08:02] I have no idea how to make myself visible. Like you said, it all became, uh, organically and I didn't study about like strategy, how to do that. I. Okay, my passion was now visible. I partnered with, uh, experts in the field, for example, women in tech, cultures, genders, and neurodiversity, L-G-B-T-Q from very different angles of diversity.

[00:08:30] If people are expert in these areas, I build a team together, ambassadors team, and we provided solutions. Collectively for organizations. That's, I think how the, uh, the organization was formed, how we learned from each other and each other's, you know, perspective and each other's experiences that made it, I think, more unique and strong.

[00:08:57] That's how it actually, you know, [00:09:00] came out. It wasn't an easy job, but I haven't sold anybody by knocking the door, to be honest. I worked, um. We educated over 250,000 people globally so far. Wow. But like I haven't knocked any door. I have no idea how to sell. They were the ones who came to me, including, for example, Google Meta, Microsoft.

[00:09:27] Pfizer, we hi from, uh, Jaguar to Merced. So these companies approached me. I had no idea how to work with, you know, B2B or doing sales

[00:09:39] Amel Derragui: or business. That is amazing and truly inspiring to see how it got you. And just for those who might be at the edge of that journey or thinking about it, might be hesitant, I think.

[00:09:51] I would love to emphasize on one thing you've done from the get go, which is to not let the fact that you don't have any expertise in the field stop you from doing [00:10:00] what matters to you, which is the end goal. The mission

of helping companies or pushing companies to put inclusion at the center of their strategies and the way they deal with their.

[00:10:11] People. And the way you've done it is by simply sharing your story and sharing the story of other people and talking about the problem before even trying to figure out the solution. First, highlighting where the issue was, and then once people were interested enough, and then we said, okay, what we do now, then you surrounded yourself with the skills that necessary to help these companies solve the problem.

[00:10:36] And this is what for me, is being. A Catalyzer, you've been a catalyzer of gathering all these expertise that's needed to fix the problem of inclusion and diversity in.

[00:10:50] Furkan Karayel: I think you summarized it so well and one of the key messages I would like to give, surround yourself with those genuine people who sees [00:11:00] that problem as a problem and they would like to drive it to change with you.

[00:11:05] For example, the work that I do, I know that my partners do that work as well. I promote their work as well, I think. People see that generality, that we all are in this together. We would like to make, uh, companies a little bit more inclusive every single day. And they see that, you know, that can be easily done, done by like collecting minds together and doing a collective work and supporting each other rather than.

[00:11:34] You know, seeing people as a, as a competitors, I, I think I haven't, uh, look at people or organization as like, oh, this is a competitor. No, they do different. Like even though if we deliver the same thing, they do it differently and I do it differently and we give those diversity of. Delivery diversity of styles to our um, clients, which is fantastic.

[00:11:59] [00:12:00] They can choose whichever style they are looking for that they can fit. They sometimes work with us. They sometimes work with others, though I think, um, together is something that's made my organization stronger and stronger. That stood up one of

[00:12:16] Amel Derragui: your key success factors here. It's really seems to be cooperation.

[00:12:22] But also, as you said, the value of being authentic and the value of actually sharing the same mission and surrounding of with yourself, with the people who actually hear so much about this common vision, that they're ready

to actually come together regardless of. If your competitors are not, so I think this is a wonderful way to look at it with a lot of people fear competition when that is actually often what that slows people down from getting results.

[00:12:50] And we can see that not having that fear has helped you get faster results. What was your pivotal moment where things started ticking another level in your business?

[00:12:59] Furkan Karayel: [00:13:00] That's a very good question because I think even though we do our best for our business, sometimes it doesn't work and if it doesn't work.

[00:13:07] The way that it is being built, uh, then we shouldn't in, uh, insist on the thing that is not working. Mm-Hmm. And for me, and because it's a passion for so many people, if they start a business, then sometimes we could be blinded by that passion as well. And once I asked myself, how is this business going to sustain you?

[00:13:32] Number of clients that I had, the how, how many number of uh, companies that are approaching to me, and is this something that you know, financially sustained me? Because even though if you have a patient, if it doesn't financially sustain you, then. It's, it's like a side project and just a passion, but it is not turned into a business.

[00:13:57] This is a tricky part for some, so many [00:14:00] people. Um, after I got the payment of my big clients and I said, okay, that's it. This is my rest of my life. And I was there, as I was saying, I was there 100% already, but that moment I, it cleared. So many questions in my mind. As you know, starting a business means like jumping into a water.

[00:14:23] You don't know how to swim, and you learn to swim to survive, and then you just become fluent on it and you just try. Uh, you enjoy it later on, but at first you are just jumping into the water and you, you have no idea how to survive. And I think you need to be comfortable with the unknown, and it is. It is very challenging, especially with the Covid times.

[00:14:51] My unknown times was around the same time. So it was, yeah, it

[00:14:56] Amel Derragui: was, uh, hard very quickly about what you said that I think is [00:15:00] so important. 'cause I've seen so many of my clients going through that period of doubt of where there is it gonna be it, and I think. If I had to kind of reproduce a little bit of the, what I've heard from you is that you gave yourself the time in the beginning to experiment and explore, to figure out what

you want and what you're good at, and who you can work with, and how you can solve the problem you care about.

[00:15:25] But once you have experimented enough, came the time where it was, okay, now it's about the money and I need to live off this. So where do I see myself going? And it feels to me that the key decision you have made was to have the clarity that you're not ready to go back to the job, you're not ready to go back to take a, an employment, and you are full on into making this business viable and profitable.

[00:15:50] Would you agree with that? Yes. I think this is so important and I think a lot of people lose themselves in not being clear about that, and [00:16:00] that's the first question I ask every one of my clients who come to me is, do you want to go back to the workforce? Are you clear about that? Right? And doesn't mean that you can't start, you can start, but that is one of the questions that I would invite all those who are listening, who are in that time.

[00:16:15] Know what you want ultimately. So this is very powerful. Mm-Hmm. And I'd

[00:16:20] Furkan Karayel: like to make it clear to the listeners as well. It took me like one and a half, almost two years to come into that position. So it wasn't a, of course, you know, few months, uh, if anybody's like struggling with that as well. And when I started this.

[00:16:37] I have given 100%, yes, I had doubts in the mind, but I have given my 100% means that if there is anything happening in relation to diversity, it, it's about events, it's about, you know, education things, especially in Ireland. I was there and people later on start [00:17:00] telling me that. These diverse and inclusion became your, your like second name.

[00:17:05] Mm-Hmm. Because whenever these things are happening, you were there, you were either speaking, participating, volunteering, whatever. So you become that person, but from outside and um, and it was so powerful. And if you give your 100%. Then this is naturally happening. Uh, even though it, I had thoughts. I said, whatever, I'm gonna give myself into this.

[00:17:34] Even if it doesn't get successful, I don't care. Then, you know, two years later I was thinking, you know, would I still go back Then at some stage I said, no, I wouldn't go back. So that

[00:17:46] Amel Derragui: is the right, the story. I love that you insist on the fact that it was not a. From a day to another that you got results.

[00:17:54] And the 100% is important. What you're saying here for me, in other words, is making sure that you've [00:18:00] tried everything in your power to know if this is the right way to go. Right? And you've done that. And one of the things you've done and is to be everywhere where this topic was spoken about. First, I'm sure as a participant and then as a contributor, and I think that is such a good lesson of how to become the go-to expert is by being present where the conversations are happening and this is the

[00:18:27] Furkan Karayel: key thing.

[00:18:27] Absolutely. Yeah. I never miss those conversations about your topic. If. If they're happening now, I can't after many years. Yeah. Uh, but I would love to, again, as much as possible, I, I, I do, but at first, in the first, I, I can say three years, four years I was there, and if I'm, let's say, missing something my friends would text me for.

[00:18:52] Again, this is happening, you must come there as well. So, uh, I love it. That is, that is important. I

[00:18:58] Amel Derragui: love it. So [00:19:00] how did you go from not knowing anything about the field of inclusion and diversity to writing a whole book about it?

[00:19:07] Furkan Karayel: Very good. At first when I launched my platform, as I said, I wanted to be the voice of those people who haven't been heard enough and I start getting invitation to companies work on.

[00:19:20] Would you like to speak about, I. You know, diversity in our company. And, uh, I was saying thank you, but I wasn't getting, I didn't get into that. Why? Because I never seen myself as competent enough. Like who am I to talk about diversity? Seriously? And once I start getting the, the invitations, like we are looking for your side of women in tech.

[00:19:48] Would you like to share your story? Then I said, yes, I'm comfortable sharing my story. What could have been better? What could have been changed from those times as a lesson? So, and on the other side, [00:20:00] when we launched the platform, we start getting, for example, pro programs and invite. So I have given those.

[00:20:07] Work to people that I trusted and I was there as a listener and I was learning from them as well, the way that they run the programs and, uh, talk and how they run a workshop. And later on at some stage, you know, I was taking, uh, a lot of trainings from other companies as well. And I have seen some

people were really talking about it, like my secondary school, uh, teacher history teacher.

[00:20:38] You just like talk about it. You read it from the slides. It's just like, okay, that's, that's about it. And people live for me, that was a life. Changing experiences, then I said, I can definitely do a better job than these people. Then I started, when I got the next invitation, I partnered with [00:21:00] another person.

[00:21:00] Then people loved it, and uh, and I did it more and more. So this is how it became, and when it comes to the book. Uh, as part of diverse in, uh, we delivered inclusive leadership programs with my partners again, and we have seen that some leaders were naturally so at inclusion and we wanted to understand what made leaders, inclusive leaders.

[00:21:28] And we have seen a pattern, and we have seen that they had these six skills in common. They were self-awareness, empathy, engagement, cultural wisdom, accountability, and commitment. And so it was very clear to us later on, you know, how these leaders were living inclusion every single day. And I turned. With my experiences working in tech and their inclusive leaders experiences, [00:22:00] how do they live inclusion?

[00:22:02] Doesn't matter what job they are, what kind of background they have, you know, uh, where, where they are located. So it has been a nice, um. Nice mix of, um, a little bit like personal, a little bit of like learning from other organizations and leaders. Uh, I always wanted to write a book. I loved books. And, uh, I even had a list before I write my book, like what makes a good book?

[00:22:32] Mm. Even when I'm ordering from Amazon from different places, I always compare. And I had like my, um. Good book theory kind of. So it was clear to me how to write, what to write. And the most important thing was like if I'm gonna write a book, it is not like, oh, what should I write about? It should come from that.

[00:22:56] I can't hold it anymore. It should be spread to the [00:23:00] world with the people. So. Um, yeah, I could write any book e even before that, but I wasn't triggered. I said, you know, I don't want my first book to be, oh, what should I write about? They should come from something and Inclusive leadership programs was this.

[00:23:17] Then I turned it to. To the book Inclusive Intelligence, how to be a role model for Diverse and Inclusion, and I just didn't want it to stay the stories

with me to be shared with the world. When I'm gone, people can still read it and learn from my experiences.

[00:23:33] Amel Derragui: Yeah, this is amazing and. I could unpack this in many ways.

[00:23:37] I love it. I'm just going to, because it'll save us time to highlight one thing that is important for those who want to be seen as the Go-to expert. Once we figure out the problem that we wanna solve, once we experimented to find the solution by partnering or developing the skills we need, then I think the next step.

[00:23:54] Is to see the patterns in the solutions you're providing, and that's what you've done. You've developed a [00:24:00] framework, it seems to me, tell me if I'm wrong, but with those six elements of INT intelligence, inclu, intelligent inclusion, and that framework has become the pillars of your book, if I may, under understand well.

[00:24:13] Furkan Karayel: Absolutely. And you know what, uh, ml previously I was being asked to speak or deliver workshops around, for example, diverse and inclusion, action oriented diversity. This, this, this. Now. Most of my clients are looking for inclusive intelligence work from me, so that is something that wasn't there before.

[00:24:38] Now they're actively seeking for

[00:24:41] Amel Derragui: it. That is amazing. You mentioned a lot at the beginning that you did not know any of this, but to learn to be more visible because you're really good at LinkedIn, you're really good at messaging. Is there anything, any tool, any marketing strategy that you feel like was really helpful for you?

[00:24:59] Furkan Karayel: Um, [00:25:00] that's a really good question because whoever I meet Amal, they tell me that, oh, you are so good at branding. Mm-Hmm. And I had no idea if I was good at branding or if I was presenting myself. Well, and I think it became organically. And yes, I judge myself a lot before I post something if it is going to be useful or is it's going to be a waste of time for somebody who get the, the post and things like this.

[00:25:26] And I shared things. I believe that is going to be useful for the readers. So that, that is my first message. And uh, I learned from other people as well. Maybe one thing

hat as well. Um, a friend of mine who received an award in Ireland later on, I have seen in her signature that the ce the winner of this award.

[00:25:52] And I'm always shy to talk about like whatever. Accomplishment that I had. Then I said, maybe I can add this [00:26:00] to my signature. Put the things that you want to tell people into your email signatures. Mm-Hmm. This is one thing, and also in your LinkedIn profile. I think so many of my clients are coming from LinkedIn and Google searches too.

[00:26:16] When people go into your LinkedIn account, people will be clear on what you're patient about and what you do and the style that you do it. Mm-Hmm. Uh, if it is clear with your like. Head cover image or in your profile to me, if it is useful, then I share. And being there 100% when these keywords of your choices happening is something I think helped me being.

[00:26:45] Committed and showing that commitment on your post as well is, it's not about that one day I'm talking about, uh, diversity, and next day I'm talking about, you know, completely different. Once people see me, [00:27:00] they expect, they see that I'm talking about diversity or something related. Some is about

[00:27:07] Amel Derragui: knowing the key messages around your mission and honing into them consistently, and that's I guess, also an important thing too.

[00:27:18] Be seen as the go-to expert. It's not by making one statement and waiting for it is by being consistent and repetitive through the key messages around your brand and your mission statement somehow, and the problem you wanna solve

[00:27:33] Furkan Karayel: on the other side. What I have done ML is that I have given a lot of my time as a volunteer too.

[00:27:40] For example, if my friend is organizing an event about inclusion. I'll be there as sometimes as a judge in the competition. Or like startup competition or, and others. So I give a lot of my time to others who are doing great work as well, and I think that's how [00:28:00] my visibility became. It is important not to only, you know, it's me, me, me, or my business.

[00:28:06] How you are also supporting other initiatives that are doing well is something that people keep in mind that, okay, this is a genuine people. It is not about the visibility, it's not about the selling, but they care. Such

[00:28:23] Amel Derragui: an important message. So you've had such an. Amazing journey. You started by blogging, then creating a community, then creating workshops, then developing a book.

[00:28:35] So tell us what's next for you now, what are you excited to work on?

[00:28:40] Furkan Karayel: Oh, I'm working on so many exciting projects. The first one is, maybe I can mention that it's about the game. So we design inclusive intelligence game. So you don't need to know anything about. Uh, diversity and inclusion, but it is a question that will open up [00:29:00] discussion with your team members.

[00:29:01] It's a group, group interaction game that is different teams, different cards, and you choose the card and start the conversation with your team. And the final one, I'm super excited is we are doing inclusive intelligence 360 gap analysis for leaders. What does it mean? As I mentioned, we have six pillars of inclusive intelligence and we, uh, measure these skills for leaders.

[00:29:31] For example, 30% of your organizations are, have inclusive leaders. 20% are. Almost championing leaders, 10% roaming means that they have a good intention, but they don't know how to start. And then some amount of them are disconnected leaders. And we see in the graph what the leaders rate themselves on these pillars, and then also how they.[00:30:00]

[00:30:00] Teams actually rate them collectively. And you see the biggest gap and you see where the focus needs to be. And it is something that I'm very patient to show in data where the, uh, where the inclusion focus needs to be for leaders, because leaders drive changes. So if they prioritize it, change happen.

[00:30:23] Amel Derragui: Wow, I'm so impressed.

[00:30:24] This is so exciting because first of all, like you've went from struggling with lack of representation to now building a tool to measure it, and so that the leaders can see where there are in the spectrum and what they could fix. Where they can focus to get better at it. So this is really amazing. I'll be putting all the information of your resources and tools in the show notes of the episode.

[00:30:51] So if you're listening or interested, make sure to check it out in the show Notes of this episode on the time is now base slash [00:31:00] 310. I'll put all the link there so they can discover more about Fran and her amazing work, Fran. I would love to keep going on with this conversation and dive deeper, but because of sake of time, we have to wrap it up.

[00:31:12] But is there anything important for you before we say goodbye that you feel like we missed on highlighting today?

[00:31:19] Furkan Karayel: I'd like to say thanks for your precious time to giving to listen to us. I totally, I appreciate and feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn and I would love to see what you are doing.

[00:31:33] Amel Derragui: I will put all the information as said, if you're interested to connect with Han, don't hesitate Han the last word of this, uh, discussion.

[00:31:41] I would love you to say the full sentence, the time is now to and complete

[00:31:47] Furkan Karayel: the blank. Time is now to invest into inclusion and your understanding of how to turn your every single day to more [00:32:00] inclusive. That is

[00:32:02] Amel Derragui: amazing. Amen to that. My dear listeners, I hope you were inspired by folk story and amazing tips all about being aligned with your values and really giving your a hundred percent in making the impact you want to see.

[00:32:16] I can't wait to see you do that in your own journey. Feel free to reach out if you have any feedback, and I can't wait to see you. The next episode. Stay tuned to turn your challenges into opportunities to create. More growth, alignment, and impact.